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Fuzzy Wolfy

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PostSubject: Inner Demon   Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:06 pm

The character you are applying it for(IT MUST BE YOUR OWN.)
Jerry Lothurn

WHAT you are applying said character for.
An unknown, inner-demon which lies dormant in Jerry.

What can it do(IN DETAIL.).
- Increases Jerry's body strength to one of in-human levels
- Light regeneration when wounded physically, magic wounds or wounds caused by a holy weapon will not heal by themselves.
- Increases Jerry's resistance to all magic, but does not make him invulnerable, especially not against Holy magic.
- Decreases magic use in general, he cannot learn nor master any magic himself.
- Render's Jerry's mental process to one semi-controlled by the demon entity.
- Removes nearly all emotions from Jerry's personality.
- Increases the likelihood of the demon being identified by anyone who's skilled in Aura magic, holy magic or a good connection to a lawful deity.
- Puts Jerry at risk of falling into a coma if demon takes over.

The demon is of unknown origin, not having any known goal apart from causing chaos and mayhem amongst civilizations. However, the soul rotting entity cannot control Jerry when he is alive and conscious, leaving it's powers and body reforming attributes at Jerry's unconscious use. The main powers being anti-magic based, which protects against many types and levels of magic and magic influenced items, though it is not fully activated due to the demon being repressed by Jerry's conscious mind, and therefor will not render him vulnerable. The body reforming gives Jerry an incredible boost of strength and physical skill augmentations, though at the same time, as Jerry's soul rots, his emotions and moral reasoning becomes stale and nearly non-existent, making him uncaring and unmoved by human emotions.

The demon can however take over Jerry's physical body when he is in danger of dieing as a last resort. Doing so, and surviving however, will cause Jerry to instantly fall into a short coma where ever he changes back.

Your SteamID.
Bacon

Why you think you should have this.
Because I'm special =3


Last edited by Fuzzy Wolfy on Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:27 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Psycheandromida
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:49 pm

I talked to Pat about this and said that Fuzzy should be allowed to reapply, since she`s proven trustworthy, but my main problem is that this is too powerful.

For my opinion I'd like to see shape-shifting removed, because although a demon's sacred field is different to that of a human's, Jerry's sacred field would interrupt this. Un-killable by natural means doesn't mean by drowning or by fire, those aren't natural causes of death. Natural causes of death are like old age.

If Jerry's Inner demon is super strong and as heavily resistant to magic as a demon is, then I think the regeneration should be a very slow process, and I think a weakness to magic metals like silver and orium are a given.

That's just my suggestion, but at least two-thirds of this should be followed through before I can accept.
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Markka
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:16 pm

Seems quite out of balance. Loss of one's personality isn't much of a downside if you can wreck stuff up without barely even trying. As Psyche said, dying by natural means would mean dying of old age or illnesses. This all makes him nigh impossible to defeat unless he was pitted up against an army wielding entirely weapons made of these magic metals.

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:31 pm

I like the unbalance.

Gives me a good adversary..

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Pat
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:41 pm

I agree with Psyche's points. Shapeshifting, even by a demon, would be difficult, especially when anchored to Jerry, as well as what was said about 'natural death'. If this was the case, all death would be classified as 'natural'.


Address these points, and we'll move on.

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Akusun



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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:12 pm

I find this Unbalanced.

In what Kind of situation would this demon show itself. There's a huge difference between being on command use and only usable in a Life or Death situation.

As well if Jerry die's does the demon die? For that would give it reason to protect it's host.

And finally instead of just dulling his emotions maybe the demon could gradually take over his body to control his host and become closer and closer to taking over Jerry's body every time he uses the demon's power. This would give him more reason to suppress the demon as much as he can.

The demon should also put huge physical stress on his body after use for these are powerful demon powers not meant for a mortal body.

I like the Idea though, seems like It could be interesting to witness one of his outbursts in an RP situation and the side effects that progress afterwards.

Feel free to use or leave any of these suggestions.

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Fuzzy Wolfy

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:35 am

Pat wrote:
I agree with Psyche's points. Shapeshifting, even by a demon, would be difficult, especially when anchored to Jerry, as well as what was said about 'natural death'. If this was the case, all death would be classified as 'natural'.


Address these points, and we'll move on.

What I meant by that was he can't be killed by throwing himself in a lake.

If he was purposefully killed by an adversary, I know it's hard to explain but EH, then it'd count as an unatural death (Just roll with this, I suck at explanations). Meaning if he was killed by the hand of someone else, this counts with elemental magic too, elemental magic still counts as being killed by the hand of someone else.

Also, editing to rebalanced.

But really, all it does is make him stronger physically, he can't really learn any magic realistically, but he can resist it at a decent rate.


Quote :
In what Kind of situation would this demon show itself. There's a huge difference between being on command use and only usable in a Life or Death situation.

Life or death. Jerry can't directly control the demon, it's more vice versa.

Quote :
As well if Jerry die's does the demon die? For that would give it reason to protect it's host.

I honestly didn't think that far, but I'd guess that it would die unless given another vessel. The same way Lucy and her staircase can't survive very long outside her own realm.

Quote :
And finally instead of just dulling his emotions maybe the demon could gradually take over his body to control his host and become closer and closer to taking over Jerry's body every time he uses the demon's power. This would give him more reason to suppress the demon as much as he can.

That's basically it, I just suck at explaining but thanks for pointing that out properly ^_^

Quote :
The demon should also put huge physical stress on his body after use for these are powerful demon powers not meant for a mortal body.

I updated that. A short coma gives ample time for whoever that wants him dead to hunt him down.

Quote :
Feel free to use or leave any of these suggestions.

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Mack
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:38 am

so basically, you want an "oh no" button to prevent your character from being able to be killed?

first of all, i oppose the idea of these "triggers" in the first place, since they're used for just what i said; keeping your character alive indefinitely because whenever someone attempts at his life they get shredded by a massive demon that spawned from nowhere.

and there's alot of stuff in this app that needs specification, such as the strength-level, rate of regeneration, etc.


specify some things, and make it much less of a "fuck you i refuse to die" ability, and i'm fine with it


Last edited by Mackalian on Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Graley



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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:29 am

I agree with Mack the Hack. This is somewhat like a bubble for paladins. It renders you immortal when you are about to die. Fix these things to make it more of a passive ability and not an ultimate to save yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:26 am

The demon should either be nerfed or be solely for use of escape.

But then again, how else do you RP this sort of character without a demon that is relatively powerful, after all, if it wasn't, how does it reside within him.


Last edited by Phry on Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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B3SERK

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:54 pm

I think I actually agree with mack
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Phry

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:40 pm

Well, hold on guys, I don't think we should be considering scrapping this idea, and by extention, character, as I know personally that this character is based around this dual/split personality/control sorta thing.

If anything Psyche's suggestion seems the most sensible, and Mack's is the dumb 'no >:C' answer that doesn't even attempt to incorporate the ability.
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Fuzzy Wolfy

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:11 am

To be honest, I've seen worst on Olden before. Keeping characters alive is basically one of the traits Olden has as an RP community (or atleast, that's what I've been told when I first joined when Geo was still in power), being that PK's and general deaths are avoidable and reversible. The demon isn't an excuse to keep the character alive, far from it, but if Jerry himself- Jerry the human -is killed or defeated, the demon's job of taking over his body as a physical vessel is made all the easier for it to take over and do as it pleases. I even clarified that if the demon does take over temporarily, Jerry will go under in a coma for a period of time due to the general stress that puts onto him as a human being.

Also throwing this out there, the coma does vary. I won't accept some paladin, even the best holy knight there is, coming up to Jerry, pissing on his name until the demon has room to take over only to run away and wait until Jerry falls over. If the demon takes over, it's a matter of how long it does and what it does during that period. I.E: Say it has an epic, monstrous battle. It doesn't have to be a battle, but don't act like a child; poking someone and running away.

If the demon takes over entirely, it's a permanent thing as far as my character can go alone. I have honestly no idea whether someone has a character that can seal the demon back up in Jerry or whether that's possible... But if it does, and Jerry does "die" the demon will, in a way, become my new character; Jerry but with his own conscious personality removed.

As far as OP goes, I can't see myself RP'ing Jerry kicking in the town's gate and demanding free candy but I've seen bigger things roam in the town without having the guards even glance over to them. I'm also making it clear that Jerry and the demon are killable, they can be destroyed in battle, but not by, say... Having Jerry stay outside in the snow for five hours... Oh he'll freeze, but he won't die. In a way, he's immortal in a similar way Vampires are immortal, keyword; similar. Not identical.

I can write an entire documentary about the entity but really I think I've played on Aeria enough to have my promise of no power/meta-game trusted. All the demon really is is a tool to extend role play opportunities.
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Mack
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:22 am

i still don't see it acceptable. i treat everyone applying in the same way.

"Just because you haven't powergamed in the past does not mean you won't in the future."

AKA i'm not taking your word for it.

everything that is powerful has a potential of being abused, and just because you've been on your best behaviour does not excuse you from this fact.


and seriously, the coma/gets tired/physical strain is the most overused con ever, and i REALLY dislike it, because people usually don't roleplay it out.

add more cons, or make it less overpowered and i'll be fine with it.


Phry wrote:
Mack's is the dumb 'no >:C' answer that doesn't even attempt to incorporate the ability


Mack wrote:
specify some things, and make it much less of a "fuck you i refuse to die" ability, and i'm fine with it

in the everlasting words of the "insult players" taunt in killing floor;

YOU WAN' BORRO' MY SPECS, MA'E?
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Phry

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:28 am

Mackalian wrote:
i still don't see it acceptable. i treat everyone applying in the same way.

"Just because you haven't powergamed in the past does not mean you won't in the future."

AKA i'm not taking your word for it.

everything that is powerful has a potential of being abused, and just because you've been on your best behaviour does not excuse you from this fact.


and seriously, the coma/gets tired/physical strain is the most overused con ever, and i REALLY dislike it, because people usually don't roleplay it out.

add more cons, or make it less overpowered and i'll be fine with it.


Phry wrote:
Mack's is the dumb 'no >:C' answer that doesn't even attempt to incorporate the ability


Mack wrote:
specify some things, and make it much less of a "fuck you i refuse to die" ability, and i'm fine with it

in the everlasting words of the "insult players" taunt in killing floor;

YOU WAN' BORRO' MY SPECS, MA'E?

sorry, i don't really read your posts nowadays, if i'm honest.
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Fuzzy Wolfy

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 11:35 am

Mackalian wrote:
i still don't see it acceptable. i treat everyone applying in the same way.

"Just because you haven't powergamed in the past does not mean you won't in the future."

AKA i'm not taking your word for it.

everything that is powerful has a potential of being abused, and just because you've been on your best behaviour does not excuse you from this fact.


and seriously, the coma/gets tired/physical strain is the most overused con ever, and i REALLY dislike it, because people usually don't roleplay it out.

add more cons, or make it less overpowered and i'll be fine with it.


Phry wrote:
Mack's is the dumb 'no >:C' answer that doesn't even attempt to incorporate the ability


Mack wrote:
specify some things, and make it much less of a "fuck you i refuse to die" ability, and i'm fine with it

in the everlasting words of the "insult players" taunt in killing floor;

YOU WAN' BORRO' MY SPECS, MA'E?

Again I bring up the argument that much stronger, much more OP'd things have walked on the server.

-and to be fair, I think I can safely say if this app was made by someone whom was Powergame-happy or unserious, you would have declined this with much less thought or reason besides past behaviours. The whole reason I brought this back up is because some people thought my RP and behaviour was good enough to be trusted with this kind of thing so you saying you treat everyone equally doesn't really give me much reason to take your decline all that seriously. -and no, I'm not insulting your judgement.

The coma thing, I agree, it's overused, but I really dont have any other idea that would fit. I can probably replace it with "Jerry literally 'dies' with the demon sealed in him for some period of time" but all I'd be doing is covering the whole coma thing with chocolate sprinkles so it appeals to one, unimportant complaint which is unoriginality when it comes to one con.

There are a lot of cons already; Jerry can't learn magic, he is gradually becoming a shell of his former self and eventually the demon will take over permanently. At that point, I doubt that the demon will go by unoticed if he hasn't already been, which will probably cause some people to want it destroyed... But that's just a few cons. Leaving the coma part out, Jerry can't summon the demon at will like a game of Pokemon, the demon controls partially controls him.


Edit: I'm also going to point out that a few of those OP'd things have climbed their way up by RP. That's fine, but if I go by your logic Mack, it doesn't matter whether they were good RP'ers or trustworthy members.

Edit2: I also-also want to point out that, yes, as OP'd as the demon sounds, the whole point is so that it'll take more than one lone-hero that eats pain and shits thunder to take it down. I really, really, REALLY hate hearing about characters and events being brought to a halt because their was someone with a character whom decided to pull down his pants and show off his gigantic e-peen to brag about how its better than yours.
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Mack
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:02 pm

Quote :
There are a lot of cons already; Jerry can't learn magic, he is gradually becoming a shell of his former self and eventually the demon will take over permanently. At that point, I doubt that the demon will go by unoticed if he hasn't already been, which will probably cause some people to want it destroyed... But that's just a few cons. Leaving the coma part out, Jerry can't summon the demon at will like a game of Pokemon, the demon controls partially controls him.

those cons don't outweight the pros. people need to realise that cons are there to BALANCE the character/ability. not just things that make it look good and flesh out the application.


Quote :
-and to be fair, I think I can safely say if this app was made by someone whom was Powergame-happy or unserious, you would have declined this with much less thought or reason besides past behaviours.

yeah, because then we KNOW that they are a powergamer and can't be properly trusted with something overpowered. you didn't really think that one through.

Quote :
I'm also going to point out that a few of those OP'd things have climbed their way up by RP. That's fine, but if I go by your logic Mack, it doesn't matter whether they were good RP'ers or trustworthy members.

i have not stated my thoughts on anything relating to getting more powerful by roleplaying. i'm fine with character advancement, as long as it's all IC and good. actually, my policy is that everyone should start out small and then work their way up through RP.

and lastly, i feel that the "other people have op'd things, why can't i" isn't really a good cause to give you this.
i treat everyone fairly, and even though my opinion gets ignored many times because i openly speak my mind and ask people to turn their powerlevels down a notch, as seen here;

Quote :
so it appeals to one, unimportant complaint which is unoriginality when it comes to one con.

that doesn't instantly mean i accept everyone but you. everyone feels singled out and vurnable when i post my thoughts. don't. it's just something to tip the scales of olden over to a more hospitable place where not everyone rips aparts buildings and can't be killed.
"well olden's already balanced", a bit, yes. but not fully. and even if it was balanced, it has to KEEP balance. with new characters and abilities being added everyday; someone needs to keep the scales up to date.

Quote :
you saying you treat everyone equally doesn't really give me much reason to take your decline all that seriously. -and no, I'm not insulting your judgement.

yes, yes you are


seriously, what's so hard about nerfing it? why do you absolutely need a insta-kill-everyone-who's-hassling-you switch that your turn on everytime your character gets into trouble? people need to learn how to pick their fights.

if your character is overly brave and prone to getting himself into trouble, then he's going to die fairly quickly. and if your character is shy, or maybe even SMART, they'll just walk out of there. simple. way of the jungle. rules of nature.
roleplay your characters properly. pick your fights, and if you decide to make a "LOL I CAN KILL EVERYTHING" character, then for god's sake prepare for your ass to be grass within 15 minutes.

using the above principles of "the hostile people die while the peaceful ones live on", combined with "only by lots of roleplay can you become powerful", in the end, most of the overpowered characters will barely ever use their powers since they're smart enough to not kill everyone who knocks on their front door.
meanwhile, all the ones who would kill everyone they see are dead, because they got overly brave, or were just stupid.
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Fuzzy Wolfy

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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:16 pm

Mackalian wrote:
seriously, what's so hard about nerfing it? why do you absolutely need a insta-kill-everyone-who's-hassling-you switch that your turn on everytime your character gets into trouble? people need to learn how to pick their fights.

Clearly me stating that Jerry has no control over it has gone in one ear and out the other. The isn't a weapon he has at his disposal, it isn't a power he can just turn on nor is it an ability he owns. He is a vessel, the entity within him is trying to invade his body and mind, knocking Jerry out is basically temporarily shutting Jerry's conscious mind off and with that, the entity can take over until that part of him returns.

Quote :
if your character is overly brave and prone to getting himself into trouble, then he's going to die fairly quickly. and if your character is shy, or maybe even SMART, they'll just walk out of there. simple. way of the jungle. rules of nature.
roleplay your characters properly. pick your fights, and if you decide to make a "LOL I CAN KILL EVERYTHING" character, then for god's sake prepare for your ass to be grass within 15 minutes.

There are already cases of powerful characters waving their pinkies at their enemies to make them disappear, Jerry having a powerful trait like the demon won't put him at the top of the food chain nor does it make him "TEH BEST EVUR".

Like I said, I want a good reason for him to be killed or for the demon to be released. I don't want some idiot deciding to take a dagger and thrust it in his face with the intention to become a hero. I want his downfall to be fleshed out, I want a meaningful end and the only way I see that happening is if two or more character band together. Not a "chosen one".

Quote :
using the above principles of "the hostile people die while the peaceful ones live on", combined with "only by lots of roleplay can you become powerful", in the end, most of the overpowered characters will barely ever use their powers since they're smart enough to not kill everyone who knocks on their front door.
meanwhile, all the ones who would kill everyone they see are dead, because they got overly brave, or were just stupid.

Of course I know villains or people who abuse their power (even if its legitimate abuse) will die a lot faster than heros. I'm not saying I want Jerry to morph into a giant with a pitchfork everytime someone steps on his foot.

I'm literally telling you that this cannot be abused unless someone provokes it. If someone is as smart as you claim, that he or she knows what this demon is capable of and is aware that DIEING HURTS, then I'm pretty sure some planning will be made before taking arms. If not, then I see it as "I wnt u ded cuz I cnat mugz u".

I have nerfed the entire thing, and as far as I see it, it is balanced. Why? Well for one, I wont abuse it by killing anyone and everyone that tries to brawl with him. Jerry cannot summon the demon at will, nor is it a good thing if the demon ever takes control because it will only make the bounty on his head bigger. Jerry cannot, ever, use magic, he is forced to defend himself with hand-to-hand combat-- To raise a point, I have a lot of characters that only have their arms and hands as weapons, and I've seen this too many fucking times:

** Character1 just looks at you, causing you to hallucinate and have terrible headachs. You can't hear, see or smell anything.

The demon's presence making Jerry slightly resistant to magic is so this ^ stops happening because I consider this power play. I don't care how powerful a magician anyone is, I do not want a demon to be brought to his knees by one man or woman just staring at him creepily.

-and again, and hopefully for the last time, the demon is killable, the crucial detail in it all is that you need to put some thought and effort into it. I will not accept people waving their swords at him in pure roid-rage as a PK. If a man comes up to the demon and expects to beat it down with his bare hands, prepare yourself to have the living shit beaten out of you, but like I said, PK's are rare, so I wont be going around chopping heads if the day comes when Jerry loses it.


Quote :
pros outweigh the cons

I've made it clear that though the demon is strong, as it should be, it has weaknesses and limits. Not to mention it cannot be summoned, used or controlled by Jerry. My own capabilities to RP without powergame is already enough to convince many that this won't fuck everyone over and that's enough for me to assume people actually accept the idea.

I really don't want to continue debating about this, nor will I nerf the character down 10 folds when I'm already guaranteeing a safe role play. I'm also guaranteeing a bit of butthurt if you think your character can single-handingly defeat a demon without a plan, proper equipment or friends.


Edit: Contrary to what you believe, Mack, I'm not insulting your judgment. The only reason you would think that is if you took my arguments personally, which is far from what I intended and I do apologize if you took it that way.
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:34 pm

Quote :
Again I bring up the argument that much stronger, much more OP'd things have walked on the server.

To be fair that's like baking 5 million Jews and going, "Well, Hitler murdered more so it's okay."
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Mack
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:39 pm

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Contrary to what you believe, Mack, I'm not insulting your judgment. The only reason you would think that is if you took my arguments personally, which is far from what I intended and I do apologize if you took it that way.

now you're just being stupid
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:40 pm

That entire 'debate' reduced my intelligence to that of a toad.

*Hops into a mucky pond*


Seriously though, this is getting stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:43 pm

Double Post Idea Aw Yeah.

Why don't we make this a Special Character if it's supposed to be so powerful? Bring him in for a quest to exorcise or kill the demon, perhaps?
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:44 pm

I'm gonna have to give this a deny(not like it matters) unless its nerfed, alot.

I seen this at LiF and I don't honestly think I can trust you with it.
Mack has pointed out almost everything, so theres no need for me to present much.


snarf snarf
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:02 pm

Approval pending Psyche's nerfs are met.
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PostSubject: Re: Inner Demon   Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:04 pm

I'm assuming that a vulnerability to magic metals when this character is in demon form is a given, wouldn't make much sense if he was when he isn't unconscious, because humans are just as weak to magic metals as they are to normal.

Natural causes still don't mean drowning or freezes, that can be called death by nature, a totally different thing. I don't think Jerry should be immune to drowning or freezing, because demons are not immune to that by themselves. They're heavily resistant to fire, mind.

And finally, I demons do normally have regeneration, but it doesn't work in minutes time, it takes hours, you should clarify that.

That's what it needs from me to be accepted. Also to clarify,
Quote :
The whole reason I brought this back up is because some people thought my RP and behaviour was good enough to be trusted with this kind of thing

I said some people think you should be allowed to apply for it again, nothing else. Adjustments to the bio were a given.
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